Over at Faeit you can find an excellent list of recapitulated rumors. Everything looks so promising. Seems the Wraithknight is going to be absolutely devastating. Suncannons look like hell on infantry and Phantom Lasers will be just as bad against tanks. That's a LOT of T8 wounds too. It has as many as two Wraithlords and has much better weaponry.
Fire Dragons are looking pretty good too. They were way undercosted in the 4th edition book, so I'm happy to see them go up a bit. Especially since they're getting armor that will protect them from the exploding vehicles that used to kill them all the time when they'd do their job. It also seems to me that Falcons will not be dedicated transports since it isn't listed next to the Wave Serpent.
Fire Dragon WS 4 BS 4 S 3 T 3 W 1 I 5 A 1And perhaps best of all is the Shuriken Catapult and Shuriken Cannon. I would have loved a little more range, but I have had plenty success with using ShuriCats as a last resort attack option and the new rules will make that even better.
Fire Dragon Exarch WS 5 BS 5 S 3 T 3 W 1 I 6 A 1
Wargear:
Heavy Aspect Armor (3+)
Fusion Gun
Melta Bombs
Special Rules: Ancient Doom
Battle Focus
Fleet -
5 Dragons 110 points
Options up to 5 more at 22/model
Exarch upgrade 10
Exarch may take Dragon's Breath Flamer for free or Firepike 15pts
Exarch may take up to two of the following exarch powers:
Iron Resolve 5pts
Crushing Blow 10pts
Fast Shot 10pts
May use a Wave Serpent as a Dedicated Transport.
So, Fire Dragons pick up a 3+ save, but jumped up in price by 6 points a head.
Shuriken Catapult 12" S4 AP5 Assault 2, BladestormSo basically they're all rending except they don't get +d3 against vehicles. That's definitely something I can live with since bringing down armor isn't even something that 4th edition Eldar have a problem with and I have a feeling it's not about to get any harder.
Shuriken Cannon 24" S6 AP5 Assault 3, Bladestorm
Bladestorm: When a weapon with this special rule rolls a 6 To Wound, the target is wounded automatically and the Wound is resolved at AP2.
are the shuriken weapons just rumors or are they proven to be true. I know you said you dont mind the low range but I just find it to be ludicrous with that low of range. even with battle trance and being able to run one of the things that makes guardians so useless is that they have to get so close to a enemy that they are basically getting automatically charged to even fire at them. The range needed to be changed and I hope if this is a rumor its not true. The rending is nice along with the auto wound but even with that the range for basic catapults needs to be upped to 18 and the dire avenger ones need to be 24 other wise I feel that guardians will once again hit the wayside of the army as the useless unit that you only take to get cheap heavy weapons.
ReplyDeletemost of the other info I do really like though making the firedragons 3+ will be nice and makes me wonder what other aspects get heavier aspect armor. have they done anything useful to the other aspects that were worthless like shining spears or swooping hawks. how have they fixed banshees which were one of my favorite units even if they were not statistically as good as striking scorpions. man I really cant wait till the codex actually comes out and hits stores so I can pick up my copy.
I don't have an iPad, but it sounds like people are getting those stat lines from the preview version of the new digital codex. I think the pseudo-rending they're getting will be amazing. The way I've always used Guardians is to plink away at targets with multi-shot heavy weapon platforms until the enemy draws near. When I have no other choice, I converge on the weakened targets with something like 2 units of Guardians shooting their ShuCats and an assault unit to finish them off. Maybe Harlies or Scorpions. Maybe more shooting from Spiders. Pseudo-rending means there will be a lot less risk involved once the enemy finally bears down on my Guardians. It also gives a reason to take more than 10 bodies. Especially if they're really dropping to 6pts a head. Basically I don't mind the short range because I treat those guns as a last resort and I don't push my luck with them. By the time anyone gets that close to me the game is usually almost over and most of their army is a steaming melting mound of rockcrete and ceramite.
ReplyDeleteMan Shining Spears would be rad with heavy armor if combined with a bike it gave them a 2+. Just thinking crazy thoughts here, but that would make them a lot more worth their points. And Banshees...yeah they need some work huh. Not sure what they need, but it feels like it's not just one thing and I'm doubting they will get enough to make them a really attractive option again.
I do have to say that if the shucats update is true I think that will be a huge thing for guardian storm squads.... a unit with two+ flamers or fusion guns. so basically you have a unit that gets 3 attacks on a charge, gets to flame the target before they charge in along with a shooting phase that on a two hit of a 6 auto kills MEQ, if they throw in a squad leader that can use a power weapon. that will be unbelievably nasty. on the otherside, you get 2+ flamers (wall of death) when they get charged plus any overwatch that you get against charging units auto wounds and kills a MEQ per hit. people will think twice about charging you especially if you can get some form of guide or divination to reroll failed hits.
Deletewhile I hate the new shucat weapon rule for the gaurdian defenders and depending on exarch powers the dire avengers... it will be amazing and actually I feel make storm squads viable and allow more to take them.
"They were way undercosted in the 4th edition book, so I'm happy to see them go up a bit."
ReplyDeleteThis have to be a joke! Eldar cost way too many points.
A Chaos Space Marine costs 13 Points with 3+Sv and Toughness 4
I suppose you could make that point about their defensive stats. When they hit the table they're just about dead already. That's a big reason why I'd rather pay more for them to get 3+ armor. Hopefully then they can shoot more than once. Thing is that offensively they are perfectly suited to their role. A BS4 melta gun is worth 10pts to most armies. For 6 more points we got the aspect warrior statline and melta bombs. And then there's the fact that everyone in the squad gets that wargear, not just a few guys like other units in game. That's unbelievably good in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see anyone saying Dragons were overcosted in 5th. I did see 3 minimal units in every list, however. And a lot of people said they were the only elite worth taking. They haven't gotten any worse at doing their jobs, so I think it's more likely that people's attitudes toward dedicated anti-tank changed when they became able to deal with almost all vehicles with S6 guns and the odd lance. Well, that and when people began taking fewer vehicles as well.
Agreed anyone who says that fire dragons were not undercosted is on crack. any army would be happy to pay for a melta gun and bomb for 10 points then throw on there that they are a aspect warrior stat line and thats not even including the upgrades you can grab due to the exarch. generally around the forums for army optimization it was one of the better elite slots you could take and many people wouldn't take anything but them and maybe harlies. now with a boosted armor save and who knows what benefits the whole squad from the exarch powers I am sure that the new cost will be fair since the old cost really was under value.
DeleteIn my true TAC hybrid lists I still bring two units of FDs. They're great and I intend to keep using them. I've always loved the idea of vaporizing guys with a unit of ten too. I usually don't take squads bigger than five, but even at the minimum size they're an excellent deterrent against the enemy getting to eager with deep strikers and other aggressive elite units when there are no heavy tanks to nuke.
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